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sails 4 years 4 weeks ago #1047

  • rumz653
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Hi all, would like comments/ views on hyde,(advantage) non class legal sail
its just over 400 so nearly 300 cheaper but can't use at opens! can north really justify their quality at 40% mark up on hyde?
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sails 4 years 4 weeks ago #1048

  • Crazyman
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I find in life generaly, that you get what you pay for, I have a 4 year old North that I still use it for club sailing and on windy days at other events. When I took it to a local sailmakerhas to have a few repairs having stuck my foot through the window during a capsize, they were highly complimentary about the quality of the matrerials used, and workmanship involvedand. On asking about the new price, observed that they felt it was a reasonable one. These guys are National and World champions so do know what they are talking about.

Anyone can build a cheaper copy, but will it last 4 years or more or will it be knackered after a season or so.

Secondly, Knowing of the work that went into the design of the North sail I would be suprised if Hyde have put the same design commitment into a £400 sail for a class that is a SMOD and they know they will not get the bulk of the sails without the agreement of the design rights holder, i.e Mike L . I do hope they did do their own original design work and not just based a price on the North design, if so, I suspect they will be getting a legal letter re copyright IP, passing off etc pretty quickly.

Next, As the class is a SMOD, it does meean everytime a Blase is a sailed in a race without an official sail it is out of class even at club level. So you would run the risk of some numpty protesting you unless you get the agreement of all sailors or the club to it being allowed.

And finally I would observe that the Blaze Class would not exist without Mike and Cirrus and his continued commitment to it, including the cost of new foil moulds, deck moulds and the approaching cost of a new hull mould, non of which is cheap. If he cannot make an econoimic return out of suppling Blaze dinghys and parts then he will most likely give up. Then the class will dwindle and fade away which would be a shame

If I felt Mike was supplying a dubious product for an expensive price I would tell him to his face. But I cannot think of many other classes where I can put up a 4 year old sail at a national event (even if a windy one ) and know I can still compete.

Personally, I think the price is right for the product.

Martin S 807
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sails 4 years 4 weeks ago #1049

  • Myles Mence
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That's quite a saving and Hyde make good sails.

But it's not quite as simple as that. All us Blaze sailors wittingly or unwittingly have a symbiotic relationship with the SMOD owner. He supplies the kit, keeps the standard of the kit up to the mark eg new moulds (big investment) so that we don't have to do that sort of thing to be able to race together.

For this he needs to make a certain amount of money. Whether this is excessive on certain items I can't say but he must make a turn and I doubt it makes him a rich man for all the time he puts in.

Thinking about it I suppose we could all go to our local sailmaker and ask for a copy of a North and who minds if the resulting sail is used locally?

Of course if one makes too much noise about it could get embarrassing if one has a smash and needs new Blaze parts quickly from the SMOD!

Perhaps if the replica sail thing is kept low key and local the status quo does not alter but I believe one should be mindful of the above. Myles 7571
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sails 4 years 3 weeks ago #1050

  • Cirrus
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Hi Guys

As you might guess I have rather strong views on this subject. I do see 'copyists' as parasites as they neither play a proper part or share costs in the long path to developing a decent, fit for purpose, sail or for that matter contribute a single dime to the class development or maintenance which underpins everything. They then produce something at an attractive cost purporting to be 'as good'..... well of course they would.

For the record we have looked at other alternatives, lower cost and more expensive and different suppliers ourselves ... including in the past Hyde who we invited to bid for the production and assessed a couple of sails by them. We, together with the CA, later made a choice for what we collectively believe was then and remains now the best compromise of cost and performance. We went with North.

I have also offered the CA committee the option of a 'different' supplier at a lower price if the thought it beneficial on at least two occassions. But only if ALL sails then came from that source as we are a SMOD class .. BTW the ...'OD' bit at the end really does mean 'One Design'. They and I feel the durability of the North is now very well proven and that they, North, have produced a great racing sail at a reasonable price ... not the lowest possible of course but the best compromise of cost and performance. Norths branding on Blaze sails also does little but help the class as well in our opinion.

My own 'punter' opinion is that I can get nearly three seasons 'front line' racing out of a North with a bit of TLC but less than 18 months out of any alternatives I have tried to date - and there have been several. In short I honestly cannot justify cheaper sails myself - they are not so attractive over time.

Mike L. (Cirrus Raceboats Ltd.)


PS - The boring bit .. I have to remind all those tempted that they cannot use the Blaze logo on any non-approved sail or race within the Blaze class. The logo is strictly Cirrus Raceboats IPR (but we allow the CA virtually unlimited use of it naturally) and we have been told that we must immediately challenge anyone supplying or using our logo on any equipment. If YOU know of any unauthorised use please let me know or if you rather one of the CA committee ... Time to go sailing !
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