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TOPIC: Carbon Mast Pricing

Carbon Mast Pricing 5 years 7 months ago #701

  • Ian
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Mike and Committee

Can I ask the cost of a carbon mast?

I cannot see how the class can ask the members to vote, or form an opinion without knowing the cost implications of the change.

Many thanks

Ian
Ian
Blaze 695
Warsash SC
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Re: Carbon Mast Pricing 5 years 7 months ago #702

  • Dave_777
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I agree without the cost of change no-one can make an informed decision
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Re: Carbon Mast Pricing 5 years 7 months ago #703

  • ABLAZE
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below appears to be what is on the yahoo page

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of matt burnett
Sent: 04 October 2012 16:24
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cc: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Re: [blaze-sailing] Re: A further proposal re the adoption of a carbon rig


I must agree with Christian. Why is this discussion not being held in the main ca website forum ? There is duplication and omission and some people aren't getting the whole story. Surely the ca/ committee and manufacturer support the ca website forum. This is where new/ prospective owners will be monitoring / contributing to the debate.
Carbon masts could actually increase /maintain the value of used boats as demand may increase as new owners are attracted to the blaze.

Regards

Matt Burnett
HGC
07748 268601

On 4 Oct 2012, at 16:15, This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. wrote:

> Hi Mike thanks for the clarification most helpful and will help when budget for my i upgrade my next Blaze instead of a RS100 or Phantom Steve
> Steve Townsend
>
>
Original Message
> From: "Andrew and Maria Taylor" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
> Sender: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 13:59:39
> To: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
> Reply-To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Subject: RE: [blaze-sailing] Re: A further proposal re the adoption of a carbon rig
>
> Mike,
>
> Could you be more specific on price please. What do you estimate the cost be after 'introduction'and assuming you have enough orders to produce a batch?
>
> Andrew Taylor
> 780
>
>
Original Message
> From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of mikelyons720
> Sent: 04 October 2012 13:29
> To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Subject: [blaze-sailing] Re: A further proposal re the adoption of a carbon rig
>
> Hi Steve
>
> It is in effect new. To be pedantic however no wording or rule change is really required because the option mast would remain an 'as supplied' one from the manufacturer. Boats equipped with supplied equipment would be Blazes whatever as the class is a SMOD one. However 'imposition' is not the way Cirrus wants to work with existing UK based CA members and my position on adoption should already have made this very clear.
>
> To address the likely price issue directy. This will be in a range from approximately  1200 to around  1400 during introduction. Final pricing really depends on the rate of uptake and batch sizes ordered. Paid-up CA members will enjoy a discount on the list price on many Blaze items from 1/1/13 in any event and the level is likely to be higher for carbon masts.
>
> The general CA 'discount' will be available for prompt CA payers and is intended to encourage timely payment early in the year - it is increasingly difficult for the associaiton to plan its acrtivities when subscriptions are not certain or easy to predict.
>
> Mike L.
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Re: Carbon Mast Pricing 5 years 7 months ago #708

  • mattb
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I'm guessing it's going to be nearer £1400. The phantom mast is over £1400 and I would guess volumes for the laze would be similar if not less.
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Re: Carbon Mast Pricing 5 years 7 months ago #710

  • Cirrus
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Matt et al

Carbon masts have to be offered for sale in the UK as we are starting to market the boat with a standard carbon mast in Europe. By the same token we have to offer the alloy M7 in Europe as an option because we will be selling it in the UK. The issue is not one of whether it will be made available or not - it will.

Acceptance or not of carbon equipped Blazes within formal class organised racing (travellers series and CA run championships) is the issue. Boats equipped with manufacturer supplied carbon masts will however still be Blazes as the class is a SMOD one.

Cirrus would like adoption at some point in time ... of course... but understand the sentiments of those who might not want to spend on a new mast today. If a long transition is voted for then so be it but we cannot simply turn our backs on technological challenges such as carbon sticks anymore than we could have ignored the critical sail/rig changes of a decade or so ago. I would also be very surprised indeed, having used one, if your own position did not shift or even switch. However we do appreciate that most owners may not yet have had the opportunity to do so. The cost issue is the real issue NOT the underlying desirability of the option. A lengthly transition makes this arguably necessary pain much more acceptable surely ?

If racing members kick this one down the road for ever the class will struggle in my view to recruit that many new Blaze owners. We have a fantastic boat in the Blaze but do need to look beyond the immediate owners current wants if the class is to grow into a truly great one. As builder I have to consider the health of the class over the very long term, not just the next 2 or 5 or even 10 years.

It is my carefully considered view that we have to grasp carbon masts now/ very soon before the world moves further on ...lest we fail the real test. This test is one of long term growth and survival. What will the next and subsequent generations of dinghy sailors want, expect, purchase and sail ? If launched today it is inconceivable that the Blaze would be equipped with a needlessly heavy alloy mast with limited gust responce; After all the M7 is primarily aimed at 2 man trapeze equipped boats, not singlehanders, like the 470 and Fireball for which it is superb.

Many classes have made very successful transitions to carbon, and none have moved the other way for any reason. It has not lessened the appeal in any of these classes to my knowledge and most have grown at the expence, in terms of numbers, of the rest. We can learn at least a bit from their experience.

So lets have that lively debate by all means but I do ask all to remember we are all on the same side here even if we do disagree on some points, and please do think much longer term. All want to see the class grow and hopefully appeal to more and more dinghy helms, ones who today do NOT own a Blaze ... but just might if we get the overall package right/optimised.

If there are other / better ways to grow the class they should also be discussed .. and soon.

Mike L (Cirrus Raceboats)
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Re: Carbon Mast Pricing 5 years 7 months ago #713

  • mattb
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As a potential returning owner, im all in favour of a carbon mast. I actually think that it may help to maintain or even increase residual values of used boats as demand may (hopefully) increase. I dont want to have to buy two though. I would definately invest in a mast bag and mast down in the winter. My current A-class cat has been looked after and the mast is looking very good after 6 years (exposed carbon)
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