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TOPIC: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast

Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #695

  • paulsailing
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1. I propose that the class adopts the carbon mast to be used alongside the current Superspars aluminium mast for all types or racing from next month, on a permanent basis.

2 should proposal 1 not be agreed upon by a majority vote, I propose the following. That the carbon mast is introduced on a phased adoption. Year 1 starting next month club racing and all open meetings. Year 2 after next years Inlands to be allowed at the nationals and Inlands. Thereafter on a permanent basis.

Both proposals assume that the carbon mast is the one offered by the builder i.e. Cirrus Raceboats. Also that the continued use of the aluminium mast is reviewed at some point in the future.

Proposer Simon Beddows
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #699

  • Dave_777
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Guys i all these proposals for Carbon masts , no-one has mentioned the cost of the carbon mast, surely this has a major effect on the vote.

+ What will Blazes in general handicaps do have two PY numbers??

Dave 777
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #704

  • ABLAZE
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here is the thread from the yahoo forum post Simon Beddows proposal but pre Mike Lyons proposal. The Class forum does appear to make life difficult when New topics are posted on the same subject



From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of Nigel Orkney
Sent: 03 October 2012 20:35
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Re: [blaze-sailing] AGM Saturday 20th October 2012 - proposals to adopt a carbon mast


I also support Rob's common sense approach, the fleet badly needs to remain an even playing field for all, and the last thing any class needs is to make it a chequebook dominated fleet.

Development is great to see, but definitely not at the cost of disadvantaging any current member or potential member to the fleet.

In times where secondhand/turnover within the fleet is fairly static, anything but a common sense approach would be instant suicide of the fleet.

Nigel
726

________________________________
From: Bob Williamson <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
To: "This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it." <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Cc: "<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 19:53
Subject: Re: [blaze-sailing] AGM Saturday 20th October 2012 - proposals to adopt a carbon mast



I agree with the suggestion/viewpoint raised by Rob.

Regards

Bob

778

On 3 Oct 2012, at 19:00, "Robert Jones" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> wrote:

> Hi Paul, Mike, Simon and anyone else listening in.
>
> I'm all for carbon -just not for the currently proposed methods of applying
> it to the class.
>
> The four place penalty suggestion seems incredibly unscientific to me - when
> we have a PY system available why not use it?
>
> Using PY would enable any Blaze sailor who wanted to stick with the ally
> mast to not be disadvantaged - surely?
>
> If same member decided that after a couple of seasons the carbon masted
> boats were that much quicker that the PY advantage did not translate on the
> water then at that point they could upgrade. This would seem to me be a
> more inclusive way of allowing carbon masts.
>
> If the mast does prove quicker then the RYA / PY will catch up with it so
> that any Blaze sailing in any club / event / race anywhere will be PY'd as
> if they have it so at that point it would be sensible for any keen
> competitive sailors to change over.
>
> I am away for the AGM so apologies.
>
> Rob 791
>
> From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
> On Behalf Of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Sent: 03 October 2012 18:10
> To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Subject: Re: [blaze-sailing] AGM Saturday 20th October 2012 - proposals to
> adopt a carbon mast
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> There are 3 distinct variations to this issue as proposed by the membership.
>
> 1. We go all out from day 1 - i.e. Carbon OK for all events as from now
> (Simon's proposal). Should that be thrown out, then we have two options:-
>
> a) 4 place penalty for Blaze Class Opens and next year's Nationals
> for those boats with carbon rigs. The mast be adopted at the 2013 Inlands
> (Myles' proposal)
> b) that the carbon rig may not be used at Blaze Class Opens,
> National and Inlands for 2013, but is fully adopted for 2014 (Simon's
> alternative proposal)
>
> The CA can only rule with regard to its own events. Carbon rigs can
> therefore be used for Club racing and multi-class events, e.g. Bloody Mary,
> Draycote Dash, Glyn Charles Pursuit, sailing weeks etc.
>
> Trust this clarifies the various proposals.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Taylor
> Class Secretary
>
>
Original Message
> From: Mike Bell
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:44 PM
> To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. <mailto:blaze-sailing%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [blaze-sailing] AGM Saturday 20th October 2012 - proposals to
> adopt a carbon mast
>
> It occurs to me that there are 2 very similar proposals both of which have
> valid suggestions.
>
> For people like Rob who have a nearly new mast, or people with older boats
> where a carbon mast is a significant proportion of the value, Simon's
> suggestion of a phased introduction would be good.
>
> However, if the proposal is agreed, anyone buying a new boat will want a
> carbon mast and will want to participate in class events. In which case,
> something like Myles's penalty idea would be suitable.
>
> Is it not too late for Simon & Myles to combine their motions formally?
>
> Mike.
> On 3 Oct 2012 17:07, "Simon Beddows" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> <mailto:simonbeddows%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Rob
> > This was discussed at the last agm and no doubt both sides of the argument
> > will be aired again this year. It was agreed to test the mast this season
> > and make it available for people to try. Paul Taylor has sailed with it at
> > all the meetings he has attended this season. There has also been quite a
> > debate on the class association website forum. I think the time for
> > talking
> > is over. No one wishes to see the class become a development class, but
> > considered change will stop the class from dying. After all that's how we
> > got the change in rig and sail design.
> > Simon
> >
> > On 3 Oct 2012, at 16:56, "Robert Jones" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> <mailto:robertjones%40eclipse.co.uk> > wrote:
> >
> > > Guys, I may have missed a discussion but if not surely there should be
> > one
> > > before these proposals are tabled and if there has been one then what
> > > are
> > > the commonly agreed pro's and cons?
> > >
> > > From my perspective as the owner of a virtually new ally mast this is
> > > frustrating. Have we become a development class by default? Many owners
> > > will no doubt feel the same especially in hard times.
> > >
> > > It might seem to some that a better answer amongst ourselves would be to
> > > assess how the carbon mast affects performance over a few seasons and
> > then
> > > adjust the PY within the fleet for fleet events if adjustment then seems
> > > necessary. No doubt RYA / PY will catch up eventually [ if it proves to
> > be
> > > advantageous only of course] and solve any further discrepancy in
> > handicap
> > > that might be proven to exist.
> > >
> > > Rob Jones 791
> > >
> > > From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> <mailto:blaze-sailing%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> > This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. <mailto:blaze-sailing%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > > On Behalf Of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> <mailto:paulsailing%40btinternet.com>
> > > Sent: 03 October 2012 14:40
> > > To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> <mailto:blaze-sailing%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: [blaze-sailing] AGM Saturday 20th October 2012 - proposals to
> > adopt
> > > a carbon mast
> > >
> > > Proposal 1 by Myles Mence
> > >
> > > 1.That the Blaze Class Association should forthwith adopt a carbon fibre
> > > mast.
> > > 2.That the mast as developed by Cirrus Raceboats should be the one
> > adopted.
> > > 3. In order to smooth the transition from alloy to carbon masts for
> > > Association Members, that for a period of one year from the date of
> > adoption
> > > (20/10/12) those racing with a carbon mast will take a points penalty at
> > > formal Blaze class open meetings of four places in the overall results.
> > This
> > > includes the 2013 National Championships.
> > > 4. The penalty in 3 above will not apply at mixed class events, or at
> > > any
> > > other events.
> > > 5. From 21st October 2013 (or 2013 Inland Championships, whichever comes
> > > sooner) the penalty for racing with a carbon mast will cease.
> > >
> > > Proposer Myles Mence
> > >
> > > Proposal 2 by Simon Beddows
> > >
> > > 1. I propose that the class adopts the carbon mast to be used alongside
> > the
> > > current Superspars aluminium mast for all types or racing from next
> > month,
> > > on a permanent basis.
> > >
> > > 2 should proposal 1 not be agreed upon by a majority vote, I propose the
> > > following. That the carbon mast is introduced on a phased adoption. Year
> > 1
> > > starting next month club racing and all open meetings. Year 2 after next
> > > years Inlands to be allowed at the nationals and Inlands. Thereafter on
> > > a
> > > permanent basis.
> > >
> > > Both proposals assume that the carbon mast is the one offered by the
> > builder
> > > i.e. Cirrus Raceboats. Also that the continued use of the aluminium mast
> > is
> > > reviewed at some point in the future.
> > >
> > > Members not attending the AGM may my place a 'postal' vote by email to
> > The
> > > Secretary - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> <mailto:paulsailing%40btinternet.com> <mailto: <mailto:%0b>
> > paulsailing%40btinternet.com>
> > > .
> > >
> > > I suggest that you vote for Simon Beddows motion 1 first. You may vote
> > > against this motion and then vote 'for' his 2nd proposal or the Myles
> > Mence
> > > proposal.
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #706

  • ho1man
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Hi all,

I honestly think that this carbon mast has not be tested to its potential, maybe the mast should be tried out with various sailors in the top 5 or 10 of the blaze fleet, this will then be used to a high standard, and could most deffnitly take a step forward which will would be noticed by all, ( used in a well attended event inlands or nationals), use of the carbon mast during a blaze event the nominated sailor should be happy enough to discard the weekend if there is to be a significant advantage.

A class member had asked for a trial during the nationals and I believe that he was turned down!!!

Is there a exact cost for the carbon rig?

Nice to be back sailing the blaze look forward to the inlands!! :)
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #707

an I suggest for all the class association members who through other commitments are unable to attend the upcoming AGM that all proposals on offer for discussion are made available in advance to facilitate a postal / email vote via the class secretary.

Chris Spicer
748
Chris

Blaze 748

:)
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #732

  • Cirrus
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Gentlemen - There wqll be plenty of opinions I am sure on htis subject ! A few facts in advance of the AGM that you might find useful. Lets have a quick look at a range of popular classes ...

See you there and lets hope we do have a bit of wind on Saturday.

Other Single-hander classes

MAST MATERIAL SINCE LAUNCH
Int.Canoe Wood – Alloy – Carbon
Int.Moth Wood – Alloy – Carbon
British Moth Wood – Alloy – Carbon
OK Wood – Alloy – Carbon
Finn Wood – Alloy – Carbon
Contender Alloy – Carbon
Phantom Alloy – Carbon
Byte Alloy – Carbon
Europe Alloy – Carbon
Laser EPS Carbon
Devoti D1 Carbon
RS 100 Carbon
RS 300 Carbon
RS 700 Carbon
‘Punk / Mirage’ Development Carbon (due 2013)
‘Echo’ Development Carbon (due 2013)

Vareo Alloy/Carbon

Laser Alloy (carbon top section coming)
Comet Alloy
Lightning Alloy
Supernova Alloy
Solution Alloy *
Streaker Alloy
Solo Wood - Alloy


*Only one launched after 1996 with Alloy rig
Last Edit: 5 years 4 months ago by Cirrus.
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 4 months ago #734

  • Bob
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Where is the proposal for not adopting a carbon mast?
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Re: Proposal to adopt a carbon mast 5 years 3 months ago #747

  • Kev M
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Why would you need a proposal to not adopt it? Surely you would just vote against the proposal for adopting it.
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