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TOPIC: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association

Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 8 months ago #675

  • Smartster
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Notice is hereby given that the Annual General of the Blaze Class Association will be held as soon as possible after sailing (not before 5.00p.m.) on Saturday, 20th October at Queen Mary Sailing Club,Ashford Road, Ashford, TW15 1UA.

All fully-paid up members are invited to attend. The Agenda will be as follows:-

1.Secretary and Treasurers Report
2.Event Co-ordinators Report and 2013 Programme
3.Election of Committee where required.
4.Changes to the Constitution to bring it up to date, copy of proposed constitution attached showing amendments.
5.Formal Proposals from full members.
6.Close of formal business.
7.Open discussion

Any full member wishing to put a formal proposal to the meeting must notify the Secretary in writing no later than 6th October.
Any formal proposal brought to the AGM will require a proposer and a seconder before the membership present can vote on the motion.

Paul Taylor
Honorary Secretary
Attachments:
Christian
Blaze 568
Last Edit: 5 years 7 months ago by Smartster.
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Re: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 7 months ago #683

  • Myles Mence
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Dear All

I have submitted a written proposal that the class adopt the carbon fibre mast forthwith. Part of the proposal is a phased integration period of one year detailing how carbon and alloy can race together.

What are other members' opinions?

Myles
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Re: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 7 months ago #684

  • Cirrus
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Hi Myles et al

Cirrus will be reporting on the 'carbon' trials since the last AGM. Ultimately, and to re-itterate our position from that meeting, we are pretty much neutral on the issue and will not have a real problem immediately whatever is decided.

There are worthwhile technical benefits from carbon for sure and Blazes for mainland Europe (and in time hopefully via Devoti distribution) will be supplied with carbon stiocks as default from 1/1/13 but with alloy still as an option for those boats. However we are very happy to continue with the alloy mast for any/all customers if that is what they want.

We have a good carbon mast option now, derived directly from the Icon programme, and if/when adopted it will be a 'one-design / no open development' one. In some classes 'open' supply has immediately led to run-away increases in cost as 'better' carbon increasingly becoems available. The mast developed and available takes the unchanged current North sail very well.

UK supplied Blazes will continue for another year or two at least to be supplied with Alloy as the default (but with the option of carbon). We have to offer this immediate option from 1/1/13 as irrespective of an AGM vote or any Cirrus policy as suppliers we cannot decline to offer similar products across all of the EU member countries.

The core issue is two fold - 1) Cost and any change usually has a cost associated with it 2) Eligibility for racing at Blaze core events .. the if/when/how discussion.

As a racer I have my own views but as 'Cirrus' I will remain broadly neutral. I/we wouild not propose immediate adoption but I would be concerned if we had a '2-spec' Blaze class for very long - ie for several years. Blaze adoption across Europe over the next few years is, we will argue, needed to take the class to the next level, and fortunately or unfortunately this does necessitate an approach that entails a carbon mast as default.

Regards - Mike L '781' (aka Cirrus Raceboats Ltd)
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Re: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 7 months ago #685

  • pipwarner
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Mike,

What (probably) would be the cost of buying a new carbon mast ? This, for me, would be a main consideration. What maintenance issues would there be with sunlight degradation associated with Carbon, two, three years re-varnishing ? How would our insurance costs be affected ? What anticipation do Cirrus have as to how second hand values may be affected ? How would different crew weights affect the performance of the mast (I'm a heavy weight at 16 Stone)if any ? What performance enhancement would the carbon mast give to the Blaze (if none, why bother) ? I'm sure there are many other considerations to be made to form an oppinion, however, I would like some answers to the above so I can make my own views on this regular subject. I am certain all the above will be affected but by how much ? I may sound negative (I probably am at this stage) but I feel we all need more information on how we may be affected by this potential major change to our class. Low cost, low maintenance, robustness and non development is what gave the Blaze the edge over other classes for me.

Any other thoughts.

Pip 637
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Re: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 7 months ago #686

  • Cirrus
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Pip - More detail will be given when reporting at the AGM. But a few bits now may be of interest for now.

1) Carbon masts do not disaadvantage heavies - if designed correctly - ie not 'floppy' (too soft) like many early generation carbon dinghy masts. The one trialed for the Blaze was designed to match current sail (ie luff curve characteristics similar) and I would not expect the weight distribution of helms to change as a result.

2) Insurance - may change but modern circular tube masts are very easy to repair (as opposed to 'teardrop' ones) so damaged masts will not have to be written off as often. In the long term it may even reduce the risk to the insurer.

3) Second hand values - The purpose or intention would be to expand the Blaze appeal (beyond the UK) in all markets. Carbon is more expensive than alloy of course and some adjustment would be likely - however we enjoy very high residial values now and if aggregate used boat demand increased further and new boat prices rose (as they would have to with carbon masts) the overall effect would be lowish. Longer term is more difficult to predict. Cirrus has to back carbon in Europe because the Blaze is simply not accepted as a 'performance' boat there with the alloy mast... Devoti for example market no boat that uses an alloy mast. Long term we will not protect used boat values anywhere if overall demand is not maximised.

4) Performance enhancement - this is not spectacular but that is not the prime point of allowing a carbon mast option alongside the M7. The boat becomes easier to sail particularly in higher winds when many helms cannot keep up with the constant sheeting adjustments neeeded to deal with the slower flex responce of the alloy M7. In short you will remain competitive further up the wind scale all other factors being equal, capsize less, recover from capsize quicker etc. Carbon is lighter as well and this is likely have have some impact as well. I race against a carbon masted Blaze with my M7 equiped boat nearly every week but do not feel uncompetitive ... the difference is that our venerable class secretary ,for example, who has one under trial at the moment can still sail the boat in a gusty F5 when he would really really struggle with the M7 (I'm sure he will not mind me saying !!) or more likely would take up another (but sedate) class ... or hobby ;-)

We can still supply alloy boom tubes for the Blaze today ... but there is no demand and has not been for a number of years now. It did not really make the boat faster except possibly at the margin but it does make gybing a hell of a lot easier and certain !

5) Maintenance - very low if you go for a painted / coated one ! I prefer white myself but if you like the look of 'raw' carbon you will have to apply an anti-UV varnish every 2-3 years

6) Robustness - Modern tubular carbon is highly robust... and does not take a bend .. ever. Of course you can break carbon in extreme situations but you will break alloy just as easily. The proposed section is not particularly light for carbon as it has to match the luff curve produced by the current M7 (ie relatively stiff) and we have no concerns.

7) Costs - these will be discussed at the AGM.

Please note nobody is proposing M7 replacement as the default mast supplied on new boats in the UK for some time and what little I know of the proposals being mooted is that they all propose that carbon masts are not accepted for Blaze championship racing until the middle of 2014 at the earliest ... I'm sure I will be corrected if needed !

Mike L.
Last Edit: 5 years 7 months ago by Cirrus.
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Re: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 7 months ago #691

  • simon
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Hi Myles
Only just picked up on this. I have also put in a similar proposal for the carbon mast to be run alongside the alloy mast. With a second proposal to phase it in over 2 years.
I believe this is the right thing for the long term future of the class. Having used the mast it quite simple turns a great boat into an even better one.
Simon ex 767
Simon aka "Andy the dancing farmer" Blaze 800
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Re: Notice of 2012 AGM for the Blaze Class Association 5 years 7 months ago #693

  • Myles Mence
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Dear Simon

I suspected as much, you can second my proposal or visa versa!

Myles
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